Question..when they who do not want to change..upset the teaching

topic posted Sun, July 5, 2009 - 2:21 PM by  Kalonaposses...
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In the last 6 months I have seen people (who claim spirtuality) become mean and in denial..so I am lost as to what to say to them. Can an enlightened person be blocked by an opposing force which renders them unamble to "get through" to people?
Is this a time to pause and be still? a time of reflection and to let things unfold..without interaction?
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  • By what do you mean "mean and in denial"? One of the general rules of being enlightened is that if the message is a good one, it will take form. Getting through to people is often reliant on those who are receiving the message. Many people are already in the mindset that what they know is absolute truth and there's not much that anybody can say to them otherwise. A lesson taught may not be realized until some time later.
    • D, cute picture....there are horible things going on in the world and more horrifying to come in less than 3 years..you message did not help..but thank you..there are some that are sheeple..6 billion people on this planet..few are "AWAKENED" but you know that right?????
      or else things the world would be different..right?
      copy and paste for example; www.asp.bnl.gov/
      • D. maybe miss read..your saying that people who are not enlgightened (are in a particular mind set) got it..your right..even the new agers..they bully people into their one belief..but do not alow for others and if they do they act supirior..so you cannot give them a message or awaken them right?
        • Not at all...Kalo...
          What I'm saying is that if a message is a good one, it will truly catch on. But trying to force a message to somebody is a fruitless mission. Why? Because most people are already programmed in a certain way. If one is preaching with hopes that the message will be accepted and acknowledged. That's futile. Sure, they may be listening but most will not acknowledge what they've learned until it actually becomes applicable.
  • People are people, just let them be. Remember actions speak louder then words. If words do not help, then continue with acts of kindness.
    • all good advice..however..some people are sheeple...and the new age is their drive through window and short cut to "Nirvana" can't tell them anything or show them anything..they have very large egos which means they are very insecure and yes with the impending earth changes some are nervous...best to stay calm and lower the empathic abilitiies I have with full screens on eh?
      Thank you all..been helpful...I wish I could better articulate the opposing energy I am feeling and talking about..if the lesson is good it will catch on..no not so..not always..remeber germany and hitler..bad ideas catch on too..no people in large scared numbers will follow any god to any destiny becuase they are scared.
      But if we do not think n terms of this lifetime or linear time..then I agree.
      You have to understand..for me as a Native American..this is the 4th world moving to the 5th..and for most western and even eastern spiritualities..this is only the 1st world they remeber or acknowledge.
      Peace and all good blessins to all.
      Kaolona'
      • B-b
        B-b
        offline 7
        I think the smart money is on the people who develop the sustainable technology that allows those who like to think and explore to leave the superstitious behind. As in "off-planet". Those that wish to remain tribal can stay here. Also, to breed division based on the whispers of hearsay and the resumption of the Fourth Reich is only to be yet another avid salesman for fear. I don't believe in prophecy of any kind, and I have *very good* reasons for feeling this way. Pretty much all of them are self-fulfilling prophecies. Man fails. What all of this comes down to is mankind has outpace his development by breeding too wildly. All the ecological challenges cannot be ignored, they will bite humanity on the ass. But that does not mean we will destroy ourselves. It merely means necessity will dissolve the aberrant avoidance syndrome we have been living under, blaming and hating each other instead of solving problems.
        • Bob, to each his own and to each his own path..peace..I must say that sometimes I find replies condisending..but usually from Male energy..the women have a way of "putting it"
          • "We do not grow absolutely, chronologically. We grow
            sometimes in one dimension, and not in another;
            unevenly. We grow partially. We are relative. We are
            mature in one realm, childish in another. The past,
            present, and future mingle and pull us backward,
            forward, or fix us in the present. We are made up of
            layers, cells, constellations."
            --Anais Nin

            Some replies as people I take as is..and know they may be in another place..at the time ;)
            • From India to the Hopi:
              Dear Hopi Brothers and Sisters,

              Before starting this letter we would like to salute the
              revered spiritual elders of the Hopi People.

              We would also like to make a special mention for Dan Evehema
              of the Roadrunner and Greasewood clan , who presently is the
              oldest surviving interpreter of the traditional Hopi
              spiritual leaders.

              We pray for his good health, as his importance far outweighs
              any treasure in this world.

              We, Prashant Trivedi and Arup Mitra,(both Engineers) from
              New Delhi, India, are convinced that the Hopis have valuable
              insight into the human condition and the evolution of human
              destiny over the next few years.

              We are traveling overland across Asia and Europe and hope to
              reach Arizona by the Spring of 1998.

              As you are aware, your tradition and philosophy is inspiring
              a lot of people all over the world.

              The artists (Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison and others) have
              helped to spread your message all over the globe.

              It is to them and will of the Creator we are thankful that
              your message should reach us in India, a land far off from
              your land.

              The fact that man is ravaging and plundering earth's
              resources and in doing so the damage he is inflicting on
              Mother Earth and the Nature abounding her is known to your
              people.

              Your people are also aware of the fact that this mindless
              exploitation and degradation of our planet cannot go on any
              further if humanity has to survive.

              It seems appropriate to use the words of a native Indian
              Chief to convey this idea perfectly - "man did not weave the
              web of life and is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does
              to the web, he does to himself."

              Though a number of indigenous people and tribes exist all
              across the globe, we can safely say that none of them have
              as deep an insight into the condition of Mother Earth and
              the wisdom to deal with it as our Hopi brothers.

              This wisdom and insight has come from centuries of close
              association with nature.

              We have not reached this conclusion about the Hopi people in
              a haste.

              It has been borne out of the ancient wisdom of Indian
              philosophy which transcends even the starting of time band
              the limits of our present universe.

              The sayings of other indigenous people are also correct in
              their own accord but are in no way as selfless as the Hopi
              sayings.

              Even the Hopi address to the UN was directed towards
              warning humanity of the dangers it might face if it carries
              on the way it is doing now.

              The address could also have been used for putting forth the
              problems faced by the Hopi people.

              It is this sincerity and devotion to the cause of mother
              earth and its inhabitants that stirs our hearts and minds
              and attracts us to our western brothers.

              An inner voice is guiding us closer and closer to your
              people.

              We are looking forward to meeting you in person in your own
              environment.

              We would like to represent the ancient culture, tradition
              and philosophy of the holy land - India, rather than
              represent any society or organization.

              Societies and organization across the world who claim to
              know the spiritual way and mean to promote peace and harmony
              do so only in speech and not in action.

              Most of them are not heeding the nature's warning of the
              coming destruction.

              This is the main reason we are not willing to bind ourselves
              to any organization for 'Truth' follows no sect.

              Receiving an invitation from you would not only help in
              fructification of our efforts but also boost our already
              strong faith in our Hopi Brothers.

              The time has come for east and west to get together one more
              time and "The Great Purification" is closer than we all
              believe.

              Hoping to hear from you.
              • Kalo... I hope that my words are not condescending to you as I truly didn't mean them to be. Yes, there are many egos in the world and a majority are sheeple.They follow whatever trend is the most popular vote. Don't believe me, how the hell did G.W. Bush get re-elected? As an artist and performer, I deal with this regularly. Even among my own kind. So much that I've even been accused of the thing in which I have opposed most of my creative life, an egotist.

                Problem lies is that the ego of one (or the ego of one mass) is often scared of change. They are afraid of the possibilities that lie outside thier comfort zone. In this post-millennial society, it's ever present. Those that seek "new age" remedies to ancient problems are often cowards themselves. Those looking for a quick and easy fix for whatever truly lies in the belly of the beast. In this sense, their minds are still closed and only seeking a non-committed way out of their mess. These people will not listen to wisdom.
                • D^3 agree..and It boggles one's mind to find over 1000 bodhisattvas here...lol...I was told in art school..I needed more ego..after spending a year on a personal spiritual retreat to rid myself of some of it..some ego is healthy eh? but if your ego is not your amigo..your ego..stinks..lol.
                  I just had some 21 year old...who read some books go all condeisending on me..I laughed..young lil whipper snapper..even the young bucks will do batle with the lead stag as animals in the animal world..we are part animal..but hard to talk to young people..in my day..I respected the elders..in this day..they respect shit (sorry for my lanquage).
                  Corperations rule governments..and that is that..what can one do..you can't really vote for someone who has any power..they are puppets to the people who bought them the corperations..the world will (being mother earth) once again give the population and known civilazation, a time out...I am ready for it. Even if I transend over to the next plane through (death) such a silly word, death...but most spiritual people want to reach nirvana..but when you bring up death or dying..lol..they are not ready..so that is a conundrum ,a mystery to me..but is the ultimate truth when respecting spiritual people......mass ego..now that is scary isn't it?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Mass ego is indeed scary. But it exists. Corporations feed off that to sell their wares. Religion vies for it to apply faith. Even creatives (like ourselves) sometimes find a need for that ego to stay relevant. Like you, I've dealt with kids who think they have the wisdom of a lifetime. Their motivation is not long-term relevance but to sooth the ego temporarily though some 15-minutes of fame. Yah, you made some music. You're getting booked, but will your legacy be remembered? 15-minutes of fame is short lived and in all honesty, over glorified. Been there, done that.

                    Look at you ancestors work, my friend. Many people try to emulate it. Others collect it and treasure it. The individuals who created the chants, the drawings, the pottery, the sage wisdom are all (for the most part) nameless. Yet, their relevance to humanity is invaluable. Think about the stories told to your generations. These are tales of unknown people originating by some nameless warrior or shaman long dead, but not forgotten. This is creativity for the sake of it. The stories contain life lessons not replaced nor quoted verbatim. Yet they are still relevant.
  • don't be attached to an outcome


    try to let people be who they are and where they are,

    even if neither you really know exactly who or where they are.


    plants seeds, but allow them the time, space and experience to germinate


    embrace patience and dissolve judgment
    • I understand what you mean (the original question). I see people who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. They do not practice kindness or mindfulness yet they expect others to. The complaining and negativity is sometimes toxic. I understand that seeing the negative is sometimes the easier path for some. That to find the good and beauty is sometimes a challenge. But the reward is that life becomes sweeter with a positive outlook. Yet to attempt to communicate this to the complainers seems sometimes futile.

      Thank you for the reminders:
      don't be attached to an outcome
      let people be who they are and where they are

      This has been a valuable lesson for me in the past. You can't rush a tree to grow.